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crankyoldmanAlright, so I'm a little annoyed today. Not because of work (because the people at work are awesome and we're working out some awesome shit) but because there's a theme in the things I'm reading lately. Well, on the internet and other such publication places. It's the tone that is starting to really make me kind of twitchy. The worst part of it is that it seems to be coming from women!
And it is this idea that if you are sciencey or just like sci-fi, you cannot be girly. At all.
Now, the definition of "girly" seems to be along the lines of: cares about character or people relations. Um, ok? Clearly they've not met my nerdy guy friends. Hell, I spent a good hour talking with the minions about RahXephon and Minion J said something profound about how the whole series is about two people trying to find a moment where they can exist together--and this is a series with GIANT ROBOTS. And last I checked, my minions were both guys. You can ask their wives for confirmation if you want. Sure, we'll geek about blowing things up and all that, but we also like the interesting character things in our nerd 'verses. They don't seem to think it makes them pansies or any crap like that.
I have always been under the impression that while science fiction deals a lot with technology and strange locales, it is ultimately about the human experience. It just does it in a way that is less obvious and more palatable and on occasion (considering a lot of the origins of the genre) a little "masculine". But whether you're using a robot to show you the vastness of human emotion or a human, it's still the same thing. And to praise one and deny the other is a fallacy. The best science fiction I've ever read always had a depth to it; you lost yourself in the possibilities and stayed grounded in the realities. Good fantasy is similar, I've just read far less fantasy outside of folklore, so I can't vouch for it as much. It just happens to be more fun sometimes, because instead of walking you can fly.
But too often I'm seeing in the effort of saying "hey I'm a girl and I like sci-fi" that there is a denial of all the girly aspects. Almost trying too hard, in some ways. Is it really so bad to admit that while you like shit blowing up and wicked awesome space battles you also were rather touched by two characters sharing a moment? I'm not even saying romantic, because I think all too often that is an umbrella term we use because as a generation raised on advertisements its becoming harder and harder to distinguish between the sexual and the emotional (think about the majority of fanfiction). Is it so wrong to admit that the drama and the technology equally get your heart racing?
In the end, it's all meta from the same source. If birds could write stories, I'd imagine they'd come out a little differently.
I might lose my geek cred for some of this, but my favorite things are always, always dialog related. How people and aliens and robots and zombies and all that COMMUNICATE has always been interesting to me. The reason that BSG ate me so completely wasn't just the drama (because let's face it, there's drama), but the communications and miscommunications. The questions of what is human, what is moral, what is right. How many wars were started on a mistranslation? Shit like that, I just... have always gotten into. It doesn't make me any less of a nerd. I still spend way too much time geeking out over things that are highly technical and have proficiency in some things that the average person couldn't give two shits about.
Really, when I hear things that are disparaged (very often traditionally feminine things) I know that there hasn't been much advancement. I mean, I figured as much anyway, but especially now that I've started to focus on balancing my psyche, on embracing all aspects. And the main message is this: you can succeed if you're a woman, but only if you're really just acting like a man". Or "you can join our club as long as you don't remind us you're female". It's still the equation that feminine = weak and it annoys me. We are past the point that we should still be thinking that, as a society. And maybe I expect too much out of what I think are intelligent people, but really, you're just playing into that game by denying your "weakness". I like "strong" women who cry, or "weak" men with intellect. It's about trying; failing or succeeding.
I think I've finally made peace with the term "feminism", because I think I finally figured out what it really means. It doesn't mean women are better than men. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with women or men. It's putting the feminine on par with the masculine. For a human being needs a balance of both, either within the self or around the self. It has nothing to do with heterosexuality or gender or anything beyond the human mind. It's sensitivity on a similar level to progressiveness. And it's awesome.
Feminism is about not buying into any sort of role before you know yourself. It's like my friends that while their designing a plane want to make it pretty, and the artist that wants function. It's balancing biology and the human ability to say no to it. We're past Nietzsche's ideas on strength.
That, ah, de-evolved, but that happens. XD It's been rolling around in my head a while. Being out of school leaves some of my mental faculties in need of debating.
Linkage for those that tl;dr:
- Omg, I love this outfit. Then again, I love that era muchly.
- Thinking about packing for Otakon considering the new weight rules and shit. Also because I like reading. XD
~Cendri
P.S. TODAY'S MOTTO AS DISPLAYED ON OUR WHITEBOARD:
"Tip of the Day: Avoid making Dracula angry!"
And it is this idea that if you are sciencey or just like sci-fi, you cannot be girly. At all.
Now, the definition of "girly" seems to be along the lines of: cares about character or people relations. Um, ok? Clearly they've not met my nerdy guy friends. Hell, I spent a good hour talking with the minions about RahXephon and Minion J said something profound about how the whole series is about two people trying to find a moment where they can exist together--and this is a series with GIANT ROBOTS. And last I checked, my minions were both guys. You can ask their wives for confirmation if you want. Sure, we'll geek about blowing things up and all that, but we also like the interesting character things in our nerd 'verses. They don't seem to think it makes them pansies or any crap like that.
I have always been under the impression that while science fiction deals a lot with technology and strange locales, it is ultimately about the human experience. It just does it in a way that is less obvious and more palatable and on occasion (considering a lot of the origins of the genre) a little "masculine". But whether you're using a robot to show you the vastness of human emotion or a human, it's still the same thing. And to praise one and deny the other is a fallacy. The best science fiction I've ever read always had a depth to it; you lost yourself in the possibilities and stayed grounded in the realities. Good fantasy is similar, I've just read far less fantasy outside of folklore, so I can't vouch for it as much. It just happens to be more fun sometimes, because instead of walking you can fly.
But too often I'm seeing in the effort of saying "hey I'm a girl and I like sci-fi" that there is a denial of all the girly aspects. Almost trying too hard, in some ways. Is it really so bad to admit that while you like shit blowing up and wicked awesome space battles you also were rather touched by two characters sharing a moment? I'm not even saying romantic, because I think all too often that is an umbrella term we use because as a generation raised on advertisements its becoming harder and harder to distinguish between the sexual and the emotional (think about the majority of fanfiction). Is it so wrong to admit that the drama and the technology equally get your heart racing?
In the end, it's all meta from the same source. If birds could write stories, I'd imagine they'd come out a little differently.
I might lose my geek cred for some of this, but my favorite things are always, always dialog related. How people and aliens and robots and zombies and all that COMMUNICATE has always been interesting to me. The reason that BSG ate me so completely wasn't just the drama (because let's face it, there's drama), but the communications and miscommunications. The questions of what is human, what is moral, what is right. How many wars were started on a mistranslation? Shit like that, I just... have always gotten into. It doesn't make me any less of a nerd. I still spend way too much time geeking out over things that are highly technical and have proficiency in some things that the average person couldn't give two shits about.
Really, when I hear things that are disparaged (very often traditionally feminine things) I know that there hasn't been much advancement. I mean, I figured as much anyway, but especially now that I've started to focus on balancing my psyche, on embracing all aspects. And the main message is this: you can succeed if you're a woman, but only if you're really just acting like a man". Or "you can join our club as long as you don't remind us you're female". It's still the equation that feminine = weak and it annoys me. We are past the point that we should still be thinking that, as a society. And maybe I expect too much out of what I think are intelligent people, but really, you're just playing into that game by denying your "weakness". I like "strong" women who cry, or "weak" men with intellect. It's about trying; failing or succeeding.
I think I've finally made peace with the term "feminism", because I think I finally figured out what it really means. It doesn't mean women are better than men. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with women or men. It's putting the feminine on par with the masculine. For a human being needs a balance of both, either within the self or around the self. It has nothing to do with heterosexuality or gender or anything beyond the human mind. It's sensitivity on a similar level to progressiveness. And it's awesome.
Feminism is about not buying into any sort of role before you know yourself. It's like my friends that while their designing a plane want to make it pretty, and the artist that wants function. It's balancing biology and the human ability to say no to it. We're past Nietzsche's ideas on strength.
That, ah, de-evolved, but that happens. XD It's been rolling around in my head a while. Being out of school leaves some of my mental faculties in need of debating.
Linkage for those that tl;dr:
- Omg, I love this outfit. Then again, I love that era muchly.
- Thinking about packing for Otakon considering the new weight rules and shit. Also because I like reading. XD
~Cendri
P.S. TODAY'S MOTTO AS DISPLAYED ON OUR WHITEBOARD:
"Tip of the Day: Avoid making Dracula angry!"
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 06:27 pm (UTC)And sci fi / fantasy / horror / whatever can deal with really interesting questions because they let authors use a whole new tool box to look at old themes (like, human identity) in a different way. BSG is a good case in point but I think of things like The Left Hand of the Darkness by Ursula K. Leguin too.
Of course, I read fantasy pretty religiously in high school and a lot of it is cheap escapism but that's not really the point. :p-T. pirate
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 06:56 pm (UTC)It's a neanderthal concept--soft and understanding used to mean being able to take care of babies. But the focus is less on survival now (in advanced countries at least), so basically that is not a requirement of one gender, but a requirement of both.
And I do agree--man as as ogre is ridiculous. But again, it stems from feminine being weak and masculine being strong, which has no place in an advanced society. I feel more sorry for the guy being jabbed as 'gay'--regardless of their sexuality--than the hyper aggressive woman. But that's me. I like the feminine qualities in the people I meet, because they were always the sorts of things that eluded me.
~Cendri
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-10 03:18 am (UTC)and that lovely pic was probably used for packing paper.Personally, I have a certain amount of faith that gender roles won't always be permanent. I really do think that our society would work better if we trusted people to do their jobs based on their abilities instead of their sex.
-TP
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 07:33 pm (UTC)This was interesting because I don’t like wearing skirts or dresses because I feel sort of naked in them not because I consider them girly which I suppose is part of my upbringing.
My mom is big into soft science fiction so I’ve never considered it odd for women to be interested in them if other girls didn’t like them then their was something wrong with those other girls. The example with RanXephon made me giggle a bit as I found the human interactions a big turn off in the few episodes I watched even larger than the fan service because well everyone seemed to care more about who they were not bedding down than the colossal threat on the verge of wiping them out. I like living so it’s hard to imagine survival was so low on so many characters priorities.
Also like to say, for the most part I can’t stand how the sexual and emotional are pretty much expected to be hand in hand. I have no idea if my own writing reflects that but it’s true and I have no point.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 07:42 pm (UTC)And well, RahXephon is really kind of complicated. XD I like that really off kind of storytelling, though. Not for everyone.
I also understand your frustration (that whole commentary was also based on this rather crass review of the last BSG episode where someone made fun of the Roslin/Adama dynamic and said they just needed to get laid, which basically showed they missed the point of them COMPLETELY). I like to subvert that emotional means sexual thing a lot, by making something that seems basically porny really be about the fact some people can't figure out how to connect with others. But I know I'm a minority. I'm not saying that everything has to be PG, I just want a point behind all the bow chicka bow wow. XD Not even a complicated point, just a REASON.
~Cendri
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 09:58 pm (UTC)I guess I perfer the relationship to the romance.
As RE: your replay to that one post I don't think you were being nosy, it's just a point I'm sensitive one.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 08:43 pm (UTC)It's full of dumb and a long way off from being fixed. :/
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 08:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 08:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-10 02:24 am (UTC)~Cendri
(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-10 12:12 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-09 09:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-06-10 02:23 am (UTC)I am cooled down now. I just fly off the handle sometimes when I hear stupidity. Apologies.
~Cendri